Ground fighting and dealing with conflict in "The Street"

This thread on Bullshido has a string of great responses to the "NEVER GO TO THE GROUND IN TEH STR33T" philosophy. I'll post the best bits here. 

The OP:

Don't ever take a fight to the ground or willingly allow yourself to be put onto the ground.
For me it is the golden rule of streetfighting.
You don't know how many buddies this guy has around the corner just waiting for you to hit the concrete.
In toxteth in Liverpool it is practically a death sentence to take a fight to the ground, because guaranteed there will be 15 - 20 guys who will jump in and stomp the crap out of you, whether they are anything to do with the fight or not.
Keep to your feet in case you need to take to your heels.
Of course if you get taken down hard you need good ground game, but only to get them off of you so you can get back up.

The first response:

Streetfighting... you've done some of that then ?

Given it's your "golden rule" I'm gaining the impression from that, that this is something you're actively involved in.

Give me an example, if you'd be kind enough to indulge me when...

The last occasion you were required to street fight, and the circumstances of that situation where you'd found yourself unable to avoid it. 

I ask because having spent a number of years employed within a role which required conflict resolution dealing with people whom, some of which, had little to lose from inflicting serious bodily harm, if not death on others, EVERY encounter ultimately ended up on the floor no matter how many people were involved.

There are three types of control mechanism which resolves human conflict.

1. AVOIDANCE 
2. PHYSICAL RESTRAINT 
3. INCAPACITY

- Avoidance is by far the best option but isn't always 100% in your control

- Physical Restraint requires you (or someone else) to retain a hold of some description but will often require that person to be prone for the restraint to be fully effective for any period of time.

- Incapacity of your opponent by KO

You're able to hit/kick or choke-out your opponent to the point where they have nothing left.

Now, unless we're training regularly in a system which is proven to fully function against opponents who are actively resisting what we wish to do to them, options 2 & 3 are actually incredibly difficult to achieve with any degree of consistency. Being able to choke-out means you're likely not being on your feet when you do it - so we're on the ground, high kicking is a risky option in many respects and you're not always in an environment where you can effectively do it. Finally, hitting a moving target whilst under stress and doing so effectively and hard enough within the first few seconds of conflict is likewise very difficult to achieve - more to the point you have no idea until you actually hit the individual for the first time, how they're going to cope/compensate your attempts at a KO strike.

What I've driving at here is there's no single solution at dealing with conflict.

In some respects I'm agreeing with the sentiments of your original post however, learning how to effectively deal with being taken to the ground, obtaining positional advantage, then being able to fight or flight from there is far better than just learning a stand up game... Because, every cuntfuck who looks for trouble of this sort will want to put you in, what they will inherently see as a position of disadvantage, by taking that shit to the floor. They may do this intentionally or subconsciously but in a game with no rules the floor provides the ideal place to stop someone from easy escape.

And a few other great posts:

You'll have to tell us how you manage to deal with 15-20 people joining in while you're still on your feet. 
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Maybe you need more friends? It always seems people are worried about the other guy having friends. My friends usually spend 3-4 days a week punching, choking, and slamming people. You should probably be worried about my friends.
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Okay, now how do you avoid being taken there unwillingly if your opponent(s) are practised and experienced in takedowns and you're not practised and experienced in defending takedown attempts?

Entire thread:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=121295&p=2788645

Street Fight Reality? Or imagination?

In the above video, a fellow who goes by the moniker of "Hedgehogey" on the martial arts message board bullshido.net prevented another man from assaulting a woman. Hedge holds a purple belt in in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

Videos like this often generate some interest on martial arts message boards and spark a lot of discussion simply because it's an example of martial arts technique applied effectively in reality. Not sport, not the movies, not a hypothetical.

Many self defense "experts" are adamant that you should never go to the ground in a street fight. They say you definitely can't tap out in a street fight, and you should immediately attack the eyes and groin of your opponent. There are always multiple opponents, weapons, and it's a fight to the death - this is street fight reality. I'm going to challenge those ideas with this video as a reference.

Most street fights are not necessarily a fight to the death. Hedge didn't need to eye gouge this man and bite his nuts off before killing him. He used what I consider an appropriate amount of force, prevented the assault of a woman, and allowed everyone to walk away practically unhurt.

Do not escalate the level of violence when you are at a disadvantage. Hedge gave his opponent a chance to stop fighting and walk away. Instead, he punched Hedge in the face while he was in an inferior position on the ground, and again after being let up. Hedge punched and strangled the man in retaliation.

For the same reason, it's not always a great idea to start eye gouging and biting when you're losing a fight - you're sending a message to your opponent that it's OK to start trying to blind each other now. The problem is that you're the one who is more likely to get blinded because you're already losing the fight. Even if you successfully eye gouge and partially blind someone, there is no guarantee it will deter them.

You can go to the ground in a street fight. Hedge took the fight to where he had the greatest advantage - sitting on top in the mount position.

You can tap out in a street fight. If you're getting strangled, and the person strangling you knows what a tap out means and they accept your admission of defeat, they may actually let you go, just like in this video. I'm not saying you can rely on this, not at all. It's simply an admission of defeat, and depending on the conditions of the fight, they may let you go. And they may not. In this case, Hedge was forced to let go because:

Bystanders can have complete control of what happens in street fights. Their role cannot be underestimated. In this case, they orchestrated the fight from start to finish. Hedge wanted to let the guy up and pass him off on to someone else. They refused and encouraged him to continue fighting. When Hedge was in the process of strangling him unconscious, they intervened to stop it when they saw the tap.

Hopefully this image drives my point home. This is the hand of one of the bystanders coming into frame, letting Hedge know that he should stop choking the guy:

A bystander telling "Hedgehogey" to stop.

The multiples might be on your side. In discussions of self defense, we almost exclusively hear about being attacked by multiples. That isn't always the case. Here, Hedge managed the situation in such a way that he kept the crowd on his side, which was essential - if he didn't do this, they might have turned on him.

This is why it was a good idea to take his time and give the man chances to admit defeat. Hedge's performance won over the audience, they perceived him as fair and just. No matter what happened during the fight, he would be safe. They were going to protect him if it all went south. Hedge knew that his opponent had no friends there.

There are rules in every street fight. But every time you fight, those rules will be different. I don't mean rules in the sense that some kind of organisation has written down rules that you must follow. I mean that there will always be a number of restrictions, obstacles, limitations, unknown variables.

These "rules" appear in the moment. Not before or after the fight. And they change during it. If you decide, for example, to "never go to the ground in a fight", then you're locking yourself into a specific scenario before you actually know what scenario you'll be involved in.

You might say that this is a single isolated case and it's wrong to hold this up as an example of how a street fight might play out. I disagree based on my personal experience. In fact, I've written an article in this blog about a very similar situation I was in, but in this case I was working as a security guard, fighting two people, and they didn't tap out. The circumstances, the "rules" were slightly different in that case, so there was a different outcome. But there were many similar elements.

If you think Hedge was just lucky he wasn't stabbed or beaten by multiple opponents, try looking at it from the other side - his opponent was lucky. Lucky that Hedge is a nice guy. Lucky Hedge didn't decide to kill him, lucky that the bystanders wouldn't have allowed it anyway. He was at a complete disadvantage. He put his life in the hands of others when he tried to harm that woman.

Personally, this is the scenario I would choose.

"But what if this, what if that?". Listen - you're ignoring what happened in the video. You're ignoring everything happening in the environment around the fight, especially his interaction with the bystanders. You're inventing your own conditions which didn't exist in this circumstance. There were no guns, knives, helicopter gunships, dinosaurs. The background is not a special effects green screen where you can switch in any scenario you like. The reality is that social dynamics dictated how it played out.

Nunchucks Are Fucking Useless

Nun Chucks. Geddit?

The Nunchaku is a light flail weapon. And that is why it's fucking useless.

Flailing weapons sacrifice accuracy, control and are mostly ineffective at close quarters. The joint allows the weapon to bounce off it's target after contact, preventing any follow-through which might help cause more damage. They're also more difficult to use in formation than a sword or spear.

Because nunchaku handles are both the same length, it makes own-goals much more likely. Don't be surprised if you end up hitting yourself.

Flails need to have an extremely heavy striking end to make them worthwhile. Then the extra speed generated by the joint can actually be useful. For example:

An actual European military flail.

Flails are more useful as
agricultural tools (shown here
threshing wheat in 1270).

This thing will cause a lot of damage if it makes direct contact. And you won't accidentally hit yourself because the handle is so long. There are still drawbacks - low accuracy, ineffective at close range, and now it's slow and heavy too.

But it can come in handy if your opponent has a shield. It can wrap around the shield, striking the defender even if the handle is blocked. Other than that, I really can't think of a good reason to use a flail/nunchaku. Which is probably why they weren't actually very popular weapons historically.

Typical modern nunchaku are both difficult to use and cause little damage. Instead of cutting a stick in half and tying the ends together, leave it in one piece and you'll have a much more effective weapon.

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EDIT:

Wow. This giant dildo is a more effective weapon than any nunchaku I've ever seen. I'm totally serious. I've watched as many videos of people fighting with 'chucks as I can find on the internet (google "nunchuck felony fights"), and I've never seen anyone get dropped like this.

Eye gouge in a street fight: a case study

Eye gouge image stolen from Wikipedia

In this article: Groin Strikes, eye gouges, and other maiming techniques in self defense, I used the example of Yuki Nakai as someone who suffered an eye gouge, yet continued fighting and won the match.

I like the anecdote below because it describes an eye gouge and how it felt in some detail. It's also an example of someone continuing to fight after being injured via an armbar.

I used to bounce full-time (despite my smaller stature) for years, and recently started picking up door shifts here and then to supplement my income. 

Long story short, I was working a punk rock show a few weeks ago, and this young punk rocker was really wasted and pissing people off. He already had a goose egg on his head from running into a pole, and he had also slapped me in the face (!) earlier in the night. He ended up getting attacked by a girl, and they were full-on fist fighting, so I stepped in, broke it up, and kicked him out.  

When I threw him out, he attacked me. Blocked his right hand, kosoto gake to the ground, and then he shoved his thumb about a knuckle deep in and behind my eye. I could feel it bulging out through my eyelid. Ended up fighting his hand off, sitting up on his shoulder, and leaning back into an armbar, breaking his arm. He was so tweaked that he was still fighting. (and oddly enough, my eye was scratched and torn badly, but healed up in just a few days. that part of the body is amazing.) 

So this is the second time that I can recall someone using d34dly technique on me in the street, only to lose horribly. I'm no badass, but I do train every day. He even used proper eye gouging technique, ie rolling the eye out from the inside, etc etc. So was it just not enough d34dly, or does that stuff just not work against a trained individual? Years back, a guy grabbed my sack, and I took knee-on-belly, shoved his neck against a fence, and he ended up shitting himself (literally, it smelled horrible). Just wondering, since I don't ever use "street" type techniques. 

Interestingly enough, he verbally submitted to me after his arm popped, but then kept challenging one of the other door guys (6'3", 240lbs, also a judoka and sambist) for another 20 or so minutes. 

Posted with the author's permission. See the original thread here:

Bullshido - street fight a few weeks ago

The point I'd like to emphasise here is:

There's never any guarantee that maiming your opponent will end the fight.

Ancient Fighter vs Modern Fighter

These chaps have very similar facial injuries - cuts, scarred eyebrows, broken nose, cauliflower ear, etc. Just sayin'.

The Boxer of Quirinal

Nick Diaz

The brilliant sculpture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_of_Quirinal

The brilliant fighter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Diaz

Who should train in martial arts?

A fatal brawl in Sydney, Australia

When we wish to learn self defense, we seek out self defense experts. People who are skilled and experienced in various combative arts who can teach us how to fight should the need arise.

We don't think to ask someone who has never been a victim of assault their entire lives, "how did you manage that?"

If your primary concern is self defense, the first question you should be asking yourself is how you can avoid such situations. What you should do once they happen must be a distant second consideration. To become an effective fighter who can see off larger opponents, it takes a lot of time and dedication. To avoid situations which lead to violent crime, it merely takes a little common sense.

If we take a look at Australian crime statistics, those least at risk of assault are aged 65 and over (0.8%). Those most at risk are between the ages of 15 and 19 - 9.9% had been assaulted in the 12 months prior to the survey. That's 1 in 10!

Those most at risk were young, male, unmarried, born in Australia, and unemployed. Most offenders were also young and male. The same goes for robbery - those most likely to be victims were young males, and those most likely to offend were young males.

and yet, feelings of safety were an inversion of actual assaults - the young feel much more safe than the elderly, and young males feel safer than young females.

I think there is an obvious correlation here between one's attitude to personal safety, and one's actual safety. If we feel invincible, we're more likely to engage in behaviour which would make us a victim of violent crime at some point.

Aftermath of a fight in Perth, Australia

If you have no interest in martial arts and do not make a habit of getting yourself into bad situations, you might be better off not worrying about it. Spend your time on things other than preparing for an event which is very unlikely.

However, it's one thing to tell young people they aren't bullet proof, and another for them to internalise and understand it, and so change their behaviour. This is where martial arts can help, be they male or female.

I believe that young people can benefit the most from training in martial arts. Not just as a method of self defense should the need arise, but as a safer outlet for those perfectly natural feelings of aggression, competition, and the willingness to take risks. It also gives focus to those who may be directionless, and socialisation for those who are isolated and lacking strong role models. I have no statistics (yet many anecdotes) to back this up, but I think activities like martial arts can reduce the likelihood of someone engaging in criminal behaviour.

Importantly, martial arts can also teach us that we aren't invincible. In any decent school which allows a certain level of contact sparring, new students will soon learn that there are many individuals out there who are perfectly capable of physically dominating them. If you're never been strangled or punched in the face, it's quite easy to lack this perspective. Especially if you're young and fearless.

Tips for the cross collar choke / Juji Jime

Having trouble finishing off that strangle? Here is some advice to help you get the tap/put them to sleep.

First watch this video of Roger Gracie demonstrating the technique. He's one of the greatest Jiu Jitsu competitors of all time, and has won many, many fights with the cross collar choke.

At around 2:38, he explains that there is no need to flare your elbows out, just use your wrists. He mimics the action in the air, and it's absolutely correct. But I feel it's a little too subtle as a demonstration and it's something people often get wrong, so I decided to go over the mechanics in more detail here.

The Wrist Mechanics

Fig. 1 - BAD

Fig.1 - Here the palms of my hands turn outward and my wrists are bent the wrong way, following the curvature of my opponent's neck. The elbows are flared which puts a little pressure on the throat, but hardly any on the arteries/veins I want to hit. It's very hard to finish, and faggotry ensues.

Fig. 2 -BETTER

Fig. 2 - Here I've straightened my wrists and rotated them towards me. I have not moved my hands closer together, yet there is much less space for the neck to live in. With correct positioning and leverage I can put them to sleep.

Fig. 3 - MURDER

Fig. 3 - My hands are in exactly the same position as before. They have not moved closer together. Yet there is now very little space, and I don't even have my elbows flared yet. all I've done is bend my wrists towards the neck and turned my hands towards myself. That's it.

Once you get that working, you'll find the hardest part is setting it up. There are other details too, which we might look at later.

Do wrist locks work?

Are the techniques demonstrated in this video really effective in reality? Do they work in "the street"?

The short answer is yes:

"I myself was put into a wrist lock like I have never experienced before - I was screaming in pain"

- Occupy Sydney protester

But it's not that simple.

While I was working as a security guard on the sunshine coast, a young man of about 18 years who had been asked to leave was becoming a bit hysterical. He was drunk, refused to go and was threatening myself and the other guard, and dared us to hit him. The other guard touched the kid's elbow in a "come this way" gesture, and his hand was slapped away.

The situation was escalating, so I took him down. He was surprisingly strong, but I had him restrained. He was face down while I sat on his back.

The other guard tried to assist by applying a wrist lock. This was unnecessary as everything was under control and there was no need to cause the kid any pain at this stage.

In any case, the wrist lock didn't work. He simply made a fist and writhed his arm around. This chap was face down with two people controlling him, yet it wasn't possible to lock up his hand and wrist.

If it doesn't work on someone face down with their arm pulled behind their back, it's not going to work so well on someone who is standing up and and fighting you. I've heard the expression "chasing butterflies" in reference to wrist locks before, and that's exactly what it looks like when someone is trying to pluck a wrist out of the air.

This is why we don't see these techniques applied in MMA. We might see it happen one day, but wrist locking professional fighters is difficult to the point that very few fighters train them. It's incredibly low-percentage.

Having said that, on protesters who want to make a point about being non-violent, and who would like to demonstrate to the world how brutal police are, it'll work just fine. Let's say someone is sitting there, refusing to move, but they're non-combative and dragging them away might not be an option. This might be the ideal situation for a wrist lock to be applied. So in some limited situations they can be useful, and I'm not against training them at all. In fact, I think that it's good to have them in your toolbox.

This is my favourite example of a wrist lock being applied against a fully resisting, experienced opponent - performed by BJJ legend, Jacare:

You might notice that it looks nothing like the kind of wrist attacks you see demonstrated in most videos. Jacare is actually holding the elbow and locking the wrist against his own chest as his opponent does a lapel grab. It does not involve grabbing the hand or wrist at all.

I will also say this: wrist locks are usually taught to be applied to a standing opponent. But it's much easier to apply them when you have a dominant position on the ground.

Groin Strikes, eye gouges, and other maiming techniques in self defense

The groin kick

Kicking a man in the groin will usually cause a lot of pain. It is certainly effective in combat, but it's not a martial panacea.

You may have heard this before: "Training in a martial art like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is useless for self defense, because you can just attack their groin or gouge their eyes - game over".

These techniques are almost universally banned in sports, which is taken by some to mean that in reality, martial arts like BJJ are ineffective in situations outside the ring where there are no rules. I believe this view is misguided.

The Mount, a dominant position for the fighter on top

There is a common saying in BJJ schools: position before submission. It's a fundamental tenet of the style.

Those of us who train BJJ spend a lot of time learning how to improve our position. From a dominant position we can attack and control our opponent, while it is very difficult for them to do the same to us from an inferior position.

Note that position before submission does not mean improving and maintaining position is more important than actually finishing the fight - defeating the opponent is always paramount.  But in order to win, putting ourselves at a great advantage by taking up a position such as the mount will greatly increase our chances of winning. Victory from a bad position is very difficult indeed.

When we add striking to the ground game, exactly the same principle applies. We should strive to achieve a dominant position if we want to employ the most effective strikes: it's position before striking. Doesn't quite have the same ring to it, but whatever.

Many people think that a groin grab would nullify all this. But again, we need to remember: position before groin attack. Watch Keith Hackney establish side control and cause some "discomfort" with a groin attack on Joe Son at UFC 4, way back when groin strikes were permitted:

Now, I can imagine some who may watch that video and say that Joe Son could have eye-gouged Keith. But they'd be forgetting our principle - from a dominant position, it's easier to eye gouge too. From side control, Keith would be better able to control Joe and eye gouge him, rather than the other way around. Quite simply, those who are better at establishing a dominant position on the ground are better able to apply any kind of technique.

When inventing techniques for self defense, people tend to get a little groin-crazy and at times will substitute more effective techniques for something which may be less effective in reality because there is a blind belief that going for the gonads is a lot easier and more devastating than it really is. A good example is the video below:

It's actually quite difficult to access the groin with a decent strike from that position. There are much more effective ways to bring someone down for a reversal. Also, pulling the hair in the way they've demonstrated allows the top fighter to post an arm out during the roll, which is the most common way of countering it.

Here is an interesting video where Rorion Gracie fights a Hapkido instructor who attempts to grab his groin twice from an inferior position (Rorion's comment about BJJ being the only style to effectively address ground fighting is just typical Gracie self-promotion, you can disregard that):

And an amusing little experiment where a young man bravely puts his balls on the line in the name of science:

One more video about balls for you. Draculino expresses his opinion about groin attacks and positional strategy.

Yuki Nakai

Apart from forgetting about position and the tendency of some to substitute more effective techniques for less effective ones, there is another problem. Even when you do apply an eye or groin attack successfully, your opponent may not be instantly finished.

In 1995, Yuki Nakai entered an MMA knockout tournament, and his first opponent was Gerard Gordeau. Gerard illegally eye gouged Yuki, which left him permanently blind in his right eye. Yuki continued to fight and won by heel hook in the fourth round.

His next opponent that night was Craig Pittman, an american wrestler with a 100 pound weight advantage. Yuki won via armbar.

In the third and final bout, Yuki fought BJJ legend Rickson Gracie and lost at 6:22 in the first round via rear naked choke.

The reason I've been using the word maim in the first place, is because by that I mean something which causes an injury which may or may not be serious, but doesn't necessarily incapacitate your opponent. There is no guarantee that maiming will end a fight.

But please make sure you read this part carefully - There's nothing wrong with maiming per se.

In fact, many techniques from styles such as Judo, Sambo, BJJ and catch wrestling are maiming techniques too: an armbar when executed to completion is no longer a submission (where one fighter gives up before serious injury and the fight stops). It actually results in a broken or dislocated arm - congrats, you've just maimed your opponent.

Also, in the same way Yuki fought on with a damaged eye, a fighter with a badly damaged limb can sometimes continue fighting. Forrest Griffin broke his arm in an MMA fight, only to come back and win by knockout. Randy couture did the same thing vs Gabriel Gonzaga. There is a long list of such instances.

So why use maiming techniques at all if the enemy may happily fight on and defeat you? Well, now you're fighting someone with an injury. Obviously, this may help you gain the upper hand in a real fight. There's no reason a submission fighter has to stop after the first break - you may break their other arm, gouge their eyes and break their legs, too.

Maiming isn't the end goal (that is, in the typical street fight or self defense situation we usually imagine). It simply helps us towards incapacitating our opponent, or at least making them give up. If it is too difficult to finish them off immediately, the next best option may be to "soften them up" with injuries until it's possible to apply a finishing technique.

It's a common strategy in combat sports. One may have to break down the other fighter for a number of rounds before scoring a knockout or submission. Ideally, the fight would be over as fast as possible. But we don't always have that luxury against a similarly skilled opponent.

I've focused mostly on grappling. What about striking? Could you just kick a Muay Thai fighter in the nuts to nullify everything they have learned such as timing, judgment of distance, ability to read body movements to predict their opponent's next move, power, speed, mental and physical toughness, conditioning, feints, combinations? Or maybe they'll be better at kicking the groin than someone who has only kicked a stationary pad at groin height in their training?

OK, one more testicle video. This is yours truly copping a massive knee which lifted me off the ground and bent my groin guard inside out. I dropped to the ground partly because it hurt a lot, but more because I was scared that my testicles had been crushed. I wanted to make sure that everything was OK down there. I was a little slower after returning to the match, but what bothered me more at the time was the fact that I hurt my ankle when a kick landed with my toes. Skip to the 5 minute mark if you want to see the knee.

Remember, I'm not saying groin strikes or eye gouges are ineffective. I'm saying they need to be considered from a broader strategic perspective. Despite what some may have you believe, testicles are not the answer to every martial problem from every position in every situation.

UPDATE: This article has been published on Bullshido and there is some interesting discussion in the comments section.

Martial arts made me a better artist

Stages of artistic mastery

And art made me a better martial artist.

One thing I've worked hard on improving is my martial skill. For years I've studied technique in the gym under coaches, with sparring partners, read text books, watched videos, entered full contact competition, attended seminars. When I find a hole in my game, I isolate it and work on patching it up. When I lost a match as a white belt in BJJ because someone got side control and just held me down, my coach made me start in that disadvantageous position in class every time until I could successfully escape. I've applied that same method ever since.

There is always something to learn, there is always something to improve on. Perfection cannot be attained, but I strive towards it. I need to be humble and admit what my faults are before I can fix them. I seek out the best for their advice, and I accept that they are better than me. Talent isn't delivered by a fairy while you sleep - the only way to be better is to work more.

Then it occurred to me: why the fuck aren't I applying the same attitude to my artwork? why haven't I obsessively tried to improve my technique since finishing my Fine Arts degree? I now see the degree like attaining my blue belt - it's just the beginning. It only means I've got a handle on a few fundamentals, yet these fundamentals will still take a lifetime to master. I felt fine with the skills I had developed in art, but was never satisfied with my martial skill.

Now these interests both inform each other. And everything else.

The chart I've posted here could apply to anything. I'd perhaps change a couple of things, but the general idea is right. We delude ourselves into thinking we are better than we are, we make excuses for our inadequacies and we need to wake up and break out of that. Be an eternal student.

So I was a bouncer at a strip club

This is a story I originally posted on Bullshido a few years ago. Thought I might as well re-post it here. I often don't capitalise when I'm writing on the net. Call it laziness if you like.


it's my hope that you can take something new away from this story and that i can give a slightly different perspective on the street fight. at least, different to how so many stories are usually written involving fights.

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i was a security guard for roughly one year. i worked in a variety of situations, from watching for shoplifters in retail stores, to assisting overdosed pill poppers at rave parties, to kicking people out of pubs as a bouncer. i'm going to tell you a story of one particular incident that happened towards the end of my year as a guard.

but first i want to talk about the people. people who visit pubs, go out partying and drinking and taking whatever else, spending the money they worked all week to make. really, they act like fucking animals. they urinate where they stand. the women vomit on their dresses and pull each others hair. men bristle and stick their chests out as they walk past each other. they hunt each other for sex and violence, they want to fight and fuck. it's disturbing how people who walk around during the day as apparently normal human beings can become sociopaths at night. it's pathetic, and they sickened me with their behaviour.

so just like animals or children, they need to be supervised, need to be stopped from harming each other and themselves. for many jobs, this was my role. seriously, they can't even line up at a taxi rank without attacking each other. i worked at a few taxi ranks, and it's where i saw the most fights. before the local council started hiring us, basically the only people who could get a taxi were those who would fight their way to the front. about 2 weeks after quitting my job, a guy getting into a taxi was pulled out and got kicked to death at one of the old taxi ranks i used to work at. there was only ever one guard assigned to a rank, so you're often outnumbered in bad situations like this. all i can say is thank fuck i wasn't working there at the time.

on to the main story - easily the worst job i ever had was working as a bouncer at a strip club a few nights a week. i only did this one for a couple of months. as i said before, it wasn't long after this that i quit.

it was horrible, and it damn near drove me insane. it was affecting my everyday life. i found that it began to change my personality. i would go to bed feeling angry, and wake up feeling angry. i hated the people who would frequent it, i hated the manger, i hated the people who worked there, i hated the strippers, the verbal abuse, the physical incidents. i started this assignment only because i was garaunteed 4 shifts a week and higher pay.

usually we had two bouncers working at this place each night. in my opinion, at this place 2 men = desperately under-staffed. to make matters worse, usually on a sunday only one guard works there because it's pretty quiet.

well, this night it was incredibly fucking busy because tomorrow was a public holiday.

it began as normal, the excrement arriving to size me up as they walked in the door. this place attracted some dodgy people... anyways, i was standing by the front door, checking IDs as they walked in and chatting to people outside. a few hours went by without much going on. then one guy in particular was going on about his mate. he said that he was a great fighter and a bit crazy. one time he knocked out a copper for telling him not to smoke in a certain area. he had done kickboxing for a few years and was good at it. not very tall, curly blond hair, a bit of a nugget. he was really bragging.

then my buzzer went off, letting me know that there was some problem inside i had to attend to.

i went in, and incredibly, there was a man standing there yelling at one of the strippers who perfectly fit the description i had heard seconds earlier. i asked the stripper what was going on, she told me that this guy was acting like a dickhead and might need to be removed. i asked the bloke what the problem was.

(i want to explain at this point that i'm not in the least bit intimidating to look at, and i make no effort to be anything but nice. i would constantly get comments at work like "you should be working in a bank or something mate!" this can work for or against you. usually it's a good thing, but there are always peeps who would like to take advantage of what they perceive as weakness.)

he said that he had been ripped off for $5 bucks. he had bought some stripper tokens (these bloody things often caused trouble with the clients) and wanted his money back since he didn't want to use them. there had been some confusion at the bar, he didn't want to buy them in the first place.

but the club policy stipulated that the tokens were not refundable. i pretty much agreed with this guy that he'd been ripped off, but unfortunately it was my job to enforce their bullshit.

i said that i'd talk to the manager and see if we could get his $5 back. the manager said no. i went back to him and explained. he said he wasn't leaving until he got his money back. again, i went back to the manager, a crazy bitch who had dealt with too many arseholes in her life, which had turned her into an aggressive nutcase.. she ordered me to throw him out.

so i asked him to leave. he had been semi reasonable up to this point, but now he was losing it because i wouldn't negotiate. i said i'm really sorry, but he had to leave.

he had put his glass down during our talk, and i could see no friends of his nearby, which i was very happy about. either one of these factors could have made me bail out completely -

- i did exactly that a couple of weeks later while again facing someone on my own - i was asked to kick him out, but he just wouldn't put down that fucking glass, so i didn't touch him. just talked and talked and waited until help showed up about 30 minutes later. the guy either felt outnumbered or that he had made his point, whatever the fuck it was, and left. the manager wasn't happy about this and didn't want me back to work there, which was great since only the day before i'd told my boss that i was quitting the strip club after the weekend was over -

- many people have different motivations and ideas of what is the best outcome for this sort of situation. in my mind, working as a guard, the best outcome is essentially the safest one. that means safe for people, property, money, and my own body. if i felt that the risk was a little too high, screw it. my job wasn't worth my health.

other people see things differently.

i was debating with another guard one night who was known for having a hot temper and for getting into a lot of fights at work. i couldn't understand why he would act that way. he let me understand in pretty simple terms - he'd rather fight and possibly get hurt than go through the anger and frustration he felt for days, weeks afterwards. i think that explains a lot. he was solving a problem the best way he knew how, and i think that's how most people work. especially these fools who pick fights on the street. your life may suck, but if you can beat the shit out of someone who is smaller, weaker and doesn't want to fight in the first place, well at least you're better than someone at fighting.

back to the story. the guy had decided by now that he would try to intimidate me into giving him his $5. he pushed his forehead into my cheek while yelling at me. he probably would have preffered to be pushing into my forehead, but he was a little shorter than i. his face was twisted up like a growling dog.

i'd tried talking to him as best i could, but now it seemed that he was seriously thinking about hitting me . i was convinced that we were going to be fighting very soon whether i liked it or not, so i took the initiative.

he was right up in my face with his hands down, and i grabbed him around the waist and lifted him up so that his feet were just above the ground, then carried him through the front door of the strip club, over the footpath and on to the street. while i was doing this he didn't move much, i think he was a little shocked that i was the one who started the physical engagement. also, i think that perhaps he didn't think of it as a fight yet, because a punch hadn't been thrown. he wasn't sure what to do. this has happened to me a couple of times while grappling people.

hooking his legs with one of mine, i made sure that we immediately went to the ground, and i was on top. it's easier to just restrain someone than actually fight them.

so i was sitting on top of him, and he was fucking FURIOUS. i told him that i was going to let him up, but that he had to calm down first. he was grabbing at my shirt and basically trying to bench press me off. at this point my name tag had been ripped off and my watch was smashed.

he was screaming at me and wouldn't listen. i applied a forearm choke for a bit so i could get a word in. of course, as soon as i let go he spat more threats. i actually said "look mate, i'm being really nice, i could really hurt you right now. PLEASE calm the fuck down."

there was a weird moment where i removed my broken watch and threw it aside and he went quiet and said "was that mine?" i replied "no", and we went on as before.

he kept telling me to let him up. i explained that i didn't trust him and was worried that he might attack me so calm down and i'll let you up.

i realised that people in the crowd were calling me to let him up. i became concerned that if i didn't, then the other people might turn on me, and i'd be fighting a number of people instead of one. i felt it was important to keep them on my side.

plus, i still wanted to give this bloke a chance to walk away and not ruin the night any further for both of us. so i let him up.

i stood up and took a few steps back. he also got up and came straight at me, muttering something through clenched teeth. as he came in range and began to throw a punch i shot under it, grabbed him around the middle and did that simple takedown where you push their upper body with yours, move forward and hook a leg to bring them down (it's so much easier when they don't know how to sprawl).

in my mind things had gone past the point of no return. there was no more negotioation, no more chances. i thought, "that's it. fuck you. you're fucked".

i was again on top. he tried to roll over to his hands and knees and i let him, and took his back. i crossed my feet and squeezed my legs as wasn't worried about him trying to footlock me, and slapped on the rear naked choke. we rolled to our sides. i started to put on a body triangle but my boots were making it awkward so i didn't bother.

then he tried to punch me. i found it almost comical. he was really flailing away for a few seconds. it took roughly 15 seconds for him to go to sleep, but before then his mate who i'd been talking to just a couple of minutes ago was pulling my hair and i think he hit me, but i hardly felt it. it didn't last long and for some reason he went away (i found out later that a few people in the crowd had been holding his friend back, which was very lucky). i had a lump on my head afterwards, it might have been from that.

the bloke i was strangling went limp and i stood up. someone ran over and started shaking the guy to wake him. he was totally out, and i was worried that i may have put the strangle on for too long. i was about to put him in the recovery position when i noticed his friend charging at me - the fucking crowd had decided to set him loose to see what would happen.

so his friend comes at me in basically the same way as his mate and i change levels and clinch. he offers up a little more resistance than his friend so i stand up straighter while keeping underhooks. i managed to do some kind of strange trip thing which got him down pretty quick.

i ended up in a funny position in a sort of side control but with a foot underneath him. i can't quite remember how it looked, but the big boot i was wearing kept me stuck there, so i yanked my leg out and the boot slipped off (it had elastic sides, i bought them cos i'm lazy and don't want to tie/untie them every time i go to work and come home). i moved around to his other side, this time having a proper side control.

like his friend he attemped to get up by moving to his hands and knees, and again i took the back and started to strangle him, my one big black boot in contrast to the white sock on the other foot.

he started twisting in to face me, which was much smarter than the other lad's approach. but i kept control and the choke was on tight.

somehow i realised that he was trying to vomit. i loosened the grip a little bit and he spewed alcohol on to the road beside us. i let go completely to let him vomit and recover. he rolled over slowly and looked at me. his lips were blue, and he mumbled something incomprehensible. he really didn't look very good.

after that it gets a bit hazy, but shortly afterwards i was standing there watching the police and another guard from my company who had been called up from nearby. they must have arrived almost immediately after...? i'm not sure. i think the other guard got there during my caper with the second fellow, and then dealt with the first one who had probably recovered a bit.

while he was being pinned by the other guard, the first chap i choked out screamed "you're too scared to fight me, cunt!". i said "that WAS fighting mate", and he just went quiet.

the other dude was now standing up. i noticed that there was a large wet patch around his groin. i guess that when you're drunk with a full bladder being strangled unconscious it's hard to hold it in. it may also have happened before the rear naked choke, just because he was fighting as hard as he could to get me off him.

i remember my arm being really tired, i was glad i didn't have to use it any more. i probably didn't have to squeeze so hard to choke them out... but i was pretty pumped up i guess.

so the police are asking who the bouncer was, and they seemed a little surprised when they found out it was me. i explained that i was attacked while trying to lawfully remove someone from the premises, so had to place a restraining hold on these guys and they passed out. no more questions were asked.

the first chap was taken away by the police and fined $2000, the second one had taken off down the street and was screaming something, then disappeared.

i went back to work and finished my shift with scuffed boots and a few grazes. later on that night i narrowly missed getting into a couple more fights.

it was a very emotional night. this shift finished at 3am. in my car on the way home, i cried and punched the steering wheel. when i got home, i didn't get to sleep until about 7am. i'd cried and had trouble sleeping over events at work before, but this was a kind of breaking point. after this i became even more reluctant to touch anyone. i really didn't want any more.

a lot of guards i'd speak to would have similar problems with sleep after situations like that. some probably even have post traumatic stress disorder.

there was this other guard i was talking to one night while guarding some cars. he was a tough guy, a very capable guard, very nice and i enjoyed working with him. he'd been in the business for about 15 years and a lot of crazy situations. for some reason on this night he decided to open up to me.

he said that he was losing his mind. he said that he had been having mood swings, nightmares and would just start crying for no reason. like, he could be watching any show on TV and he'd cry. he was depressed and was on medication. i told him that he needed to quit this fucking job. he seemed reluctant, said he had a mortgage to pay. last i heard he was still working as a guard.

i think a lot of guards go through this kind of thing. if i'd stayed in the job that long i'd be a nutcase. if you can go through all that with any emotional scars, you're not normal.

but it's been more than a year since i quit that job, and i've been pretty happy since.

well, i guess that's the end of the story. thanks for reading.